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So, last night Cynra & I went over to [livejournal.com profile] mr_weasel's for dinner and some board games.

So, we played a game of Settlers of Catan that... Well, look. The box says "60 minutes". That's not unusual, right?

This game... This game lasted longer. At the end, we were all sitting at a high number of points, everyone had some development cards (and they were in fact, sold out) and we were just sitting there. And it was late. And we were tired. And the game just wouldn't end. We kept rolling sevens (There were six in a row one time. I know that isn't very strange with 2d6, but seriously!), and no one could get across the finish line, and the game JUST WOULD NOT END.

And that's why I play Munchkin.

Date: 2008-03-03 01:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tfbretz.livejournal.com
The Clix, they have a time limit. One of the major attractions, IMHO.

Date: 2008-03-03 02:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] doc-mystery.livejournal.com
You can always use card-dice that have every combination and follow normal statistical probability. I think they even sell such a deck specifically for SoC.

Or use a large cloth bag and throw inside a set of dominoes; each tile is like 2d6, and if you don't immediately replace the tile you won't get so many 7s.

::B::

Date: 2008-03-03 02:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] doc-mystery.livejournal.com
Yep, Mayfair does indeed sell Event Cards, a deck of 36 that represent every possible dice throw.

Here's one link:

http://www.fungamescafe.com/fgcIndex.php?com=showgame&gameId=230

::B::

Date: 2008-03-03 05:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] koipond.livejournal.com
Wha-wha-wha? Let's not have a discussion of short games with the word Munchkin in them. That sucker lasts for freakin' DAYS. I'm ready to throw in the towel by the end of the first hour.

Seriously, it's like the monopoly of card games.

Date: 2008-03-03 06:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sonjaaa.livejournal.com
The best fillers that I recommend are:

For Sale
Loopin' Louie

Date: 2008-03-03 07:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] inscrutable.livejournal.com
Zombies!!! is a game that never seems to end.

Date: 2008-03-03 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] innocent-man.livejournal.com
I was just thinking that, actually. I've been in my share of interminable Munchkin games.

Date: 2008-03-03 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] adamjury.livejournal.com
I honestly don't think you're playing it as dickishly as SJG intends you to play the game, then. Then again, I suspect it's a better game for being played "wrong."

Date: 2008-03-03 05:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeffreyab.livejournal.com
I think the card deck is definitely worth getting, I have one but have not used it yet.

Date: 2008-03-03 02:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] viktor-haag.livejournal.com
The Settlers system does make these kind of late-game lockups possible, especially in a group where all players have a certain amount of experience with the game. Games where all four players have more than 7 points in the end-game are usually overly drawn out affairs.

What this means is that as a Clever Weasel(tm), you must act aggressively more quickly, based on your perception of the results of the set-up. If one player doesn't get hosed in the first three turns by ruthless road builds, then you could be in for a long night, and you must take aggressive steps to prevent the mutually friendly end game that will drag out and minimize your chances for winning.

The easiest way to be aggressive, short of aggressive road builds (this should always be your first choice, and in my opinion, aggressive road building in the first three turns is more important than your third village build or your first city build), is to buy cards. Build up a supply of knights and then become aggressive with rolled 7s and your knights. Try to ensure you always have a knight in reserve to protect yourself against robbers placed on your properties. When victimizing with the robber, try not to pick on all players equally; pick on the second or first place player and one of the other two -- your goal is to always leave that fourth player with a wrenching decision about what to do with the robber when they roll. If you share a rich hex with a player, then make sure you victimize them with the robber, because it will leave them less options when they roll sevens.

Another easy way to be aggressive is to be ruthlessly generous and polite with your trades. Try not to stiff anyone with trades, but always know what your minimum price for any trade is and stick to that. If you trade with everyone, more often than others, that "generosity" will help to counteract the ruthless board play you must put into motion.

The plain fact of the matter is that if only two players get to seven or eight points before the other players break the six barrier, then the game is pretty much over, short of an incredible string of bad luck. If one player gets to eight while all other players are two points back, the game is, again, pretty much over short of a string of bad luck. Your best defense as a front runner is cards, so put a priority on their purchase.

If you're in second or third place, then the relative worth of cards goes down severely.

Players who are trailing often buy cards, because they feel frustrated that "they have nothing else to do". This is a sign that they're doomed to lose, in my opinion. Cards are a luxury pick that helps the rich get richer; they are much too expensive for poor folks to afford. If you're in a poor position, you should always seek to trade before buying cards, I think. Trades serve two purposes: they generate good will, and they keep goods flowing through your hand and increase your chances for resource diversity.

That said, the setup and first three turns of the game are incredibly important, and with experience players, if you're hosed after three turns, you're pretty much done. This makes initial placement and your initial road builds absolutely vitally important. If you cannot secure four build locations for yourself in the first three turns, then you're fighting an uphill battle for the rest of the game.

Date: 2008-03-03 05:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] viktor-haag.livejournal.com
Yes, it is a lot to absorb; sorry. I've probably racked up somewhere in the neighbourhood of 75-100 games played of Settlers over the years. I would say that I've probably played more games of Settlers than any other single boardgame, with the possible exception of old classics like checkers and chess. Mostly because a decade ago when Mayfair first brought the game to North America, it was one of only a handful of German-style games that were easily available here, and we kind of OD'd on it... 8)

Now, that said, I haven't spent a huge amount of time formulating strategies (not as much as for other games, anyway)...

As for playing the knight card before rolling, I believe that, specifically you may do this. I believe that you can play a card at any time, on your turn, provided that you haven't purchased the card on that turn (the exception to this is that you may play a point card on the same turn you buy it, but functionally, this only happens to go out). I cannot remember whether that particular detail is well covered in the current rules or a FAQ, but it's undoubtedly a rules-point that's important to know (and settle on) before play, because it's an important one. You really do want to move that guy off your hexes before you roll (unless you have a surplus and you're trying to punish the other players built on that hex).

Date: 2008-03-03 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] viktor-haag.livejournal.com
Another interesting bit of card-play timing -- if you have a Monopoly card, you have to judge whether you want to play that before you roll, or not. If you have more than two other players sitting with a mitful of cards, then you probably want to play the card before you roll. Yes, if you then roll a seven, a lot of those winnings will go away, but you will also manage to be the one who gets to decide what to throw away, rather than let the other players thin out their hands with diversity being a top priority (as they'll almost certainly do), leaving you with proportionally slimmer pickings.

You'll especially want to consider this point if you've built on a 2-1 trading port....

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